Simple, just asking

[Misty]

OP is framed disingenuously.
Say what you mean.
Calling yourself goyim is cringe.
Do better.

Not as cringe as being called goyim in the first place. It’s not a term created by OP, in all fairness.

 

[Wyote]

Not as cringe as being called goyim in the first place. It’s not a term created by OP, in all fairness.

Not an excuse, in all fairness.
Also let the man speak for himself.

 

[Erik Alberto]

@Misty, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I may respond more fully to some of what you said later, but right now you brought something to my attention that I did not consider:

I think I made a mistake.

*Please clarify for me if OP is supposed to mean original post or original poster??

When I said OP, I meant it as the original post, and not Giammarco—the original poster.

I was in no way trying to comment on @Akar’s character. I intended any and all of my comments to apply exclusively to my reading of the opening post to this thread. I can only judge what someone says or does, not what they are—what is in their heart.

I was not calling you a racist, G. I’m sorry if that’s what it appeared what I was saying.

 

[Wyote]

I meant it as both
I love you @Akar but c'mon man don't be trollin

 

[Erik Alberto]

I meant it as both
I love you @Akar but c'mon man don't be trollin

Yeah, but at least you didn’t say the “OP” was racist, like I apparently did

 

[Misty]

@Misty, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I may respond more fully to some of what you said later, but right now you brought something to my attention that I did not consider:

I think I made a mistake.

*Please clarify for me if OP is supposed to mean original post or original poster??

When I said OP, I meant it as the original post, and not Giammarco—the original poster.

I was in no way trying to comment on @Akar’s character. I intended any and all of my comments to apply exclusively to my reading of the opening post to this thread. I can only judge what someone says or does, not what they are—what is in their heart.

I was not calling you a racist, G. I’m sorry if that’s what it appeared what I was saying.

Essentially, I was referring to both. But thank you for your response, I appreciate the clarification.

 

[Misty]

I meant it as both
I love you @Akar but c'mon man don't be trollin

Jinx

 

[Erik Alberto]

Essentially, I was referring to both. But thank you for your response, I appreciate the clarification.

Yes, I understood that you were speaking about both, but G has not said that my read on his post and his viewpoint in general, is incorrect. As far as I am concerned, that is for him to say or deny.

 

[Misty]

Yes, I understood that you were speaking about both, but G has not said that my read on his post and his viewpoint in general, is incorrect. As far as I am concerned, that is for him to say or deny.

Fo sho

 

[Akar]

Sorry guys , I went rogue.

Just two clarifications : i never denied the Holocaust or or said something that incited genocide.I encourage readers to highlight the words I used to deny the genocide. In 1945, all the prison camps were liberated and the Nuremberg trials began. Just a bit of a history refresher, so that my words don't get twisted again.

Second: we are all mature INFJs I think. I see this pattern over 2000 years and I question my self: why ?

End of the trolling


@Erik Alberto no worries

Edit Why is it taboo to talk about this? After all, people go much further when discussing other religions—on this forum, I mean. But when it comes to Judaism, do we have to walk on eggshells?

I posted my opinion. It’s certainly borderline, but it’s a legitimate question. Why have they always found themselves caught up in genocides or exiled from their native lands? Does it have to do with their wealth or their behavior?

I needed to emphasize that I wasn't referring to the majority, but rather to those who contributed to such a negative public image that they ended up being persecuted.


-Giammarco

 

[Erik Alberto]

This is part of what I’m struggling with @Akar.

You say

I wasn't referring to the majority, but rather to those who contributed to such a negative public image that they ended up being persecuted.

But then you also say

Why have they always found themselves caught up in genocides or exiled from their native lands? Does it have to do with their wealth or their behavior?

This seems like you are talking about more than just a subset of Jews.

Then when you combine this with your earlier statement…

he’s been playing this card for over 2,000

I want to ask you plainly, who is “he”, “they”, and the “bully”?

Edit:
As I’ve reflected, I realize that it would actually bother me less if what I heard from you was “I have a problem with the Jews”, as opposed to something that feels untouchable.

 

[Akar]

This seems like you are talking about more than just a subset of Jews

This seems the point I'm talking about. Why can't I make questions about the topic.

Why can't I ask why they were kicked out of all these countries.

If for over 2000 years the Jews went through this scenarios, you just accept that it was never their fault, or that more realistically, that there are deeper reasons that contributed to what happened.

, who is “he”, “they”, and the “bully

If you feel uncomfortable with the analogy from the kid and the schools we can use one that involves a client and a restaurant. Why was this client kicked out of 120 restaurants.

The client never has fault or more probably there must be a reason if this is the outcome.

Yet there is no answer to this question.

Why ?

-Giammarco

 

[Erik Alberto]

This seems the point I'm talking about. Why can't I make questions about the topic.

Why can't I ask why they were kicked out of all these countries.

If for over 2000 years the Jews went through this scenarios, you just accept that it was never their fault, or that more realistically, that there are deeper reasons that contributed to what happened.



If you feel uncomfortable with the analogy from the kid and the schools we can use one that involves a client and a restaurant. Why was this client kicked out of 120 restaurants.

The client never has fault or more probably there must be a reason if this is the outcome.

Yet there is no answer to this question.

Why ?

-Giammarco

G—

I am not against asking and answering hard questions, so long as it’s clear what we are talking about. To me, saying that your OP was unclear and cryptic is, in my opinion, a gross understatement.

Why use an analogy if you can just say what you mean? The way you opened this thread was not direct. It was shrouded. It felt confusing to me. Honestly, I didn’t even know that you were talking about the Jews. It took me a while to figure it out.

As I said to you earlier:

@Erik Alberto said: It would bother me less if what I heard coming from you was “I have a problem with the Jews”, rather than something that feels untouchable.

That said…

———————————————————————

“Why have the Jews been kicked out of so many countries?” Is this the question you are asking?

Ok then. Fine.

First of all, when it’s asked plainly like this, it’s clear to me that the question you are asking is about the JEWISH PEOPLE, in general, and not some hard to define sub-set of the Jewish people.

There’s nothing wrong with asking this question, in my opinion. A topic doesn’t have to be completely politically correct for me, even if it makes me uncomfortable.

My answer: I don’t know. I don’t know enough about the topic. This isn’t my area.

Ok, moving on…

Since I am not the right person to give you a satisfying answer, and it appears you may simply want to discuss a difficult topic openly, let’s just look at AI answers to your question next, as a starting point.

 

[Erik Alberto]

I propose that we start over.
———————————————————————

I believe that what the OP was asking was:

“Why were the Jews kicked out of so many countries?”

Let’s free it up, and let it stand on its own. I think it is a valid question. It nessesarily has a complex answer. It is loaded, too. It touches on one of the most explosive conflicts of our time and stretches back for centuries. It touches on the very complex, polarizing, and arguably unsolvable Israeli-Palestinian crisis.

I have made my position clear: I don’t know. And honestly, coming up with a more detailed answer/opinion isn’t something I care to spend my energy on. In the least. I entered this conversation because I read the original post as racist. I personally try to call out racism when I see it. When the question is asked on its own, free of racist overtones, I don't think it is racist question. Perhaps that’s debatable. If someone here thinks it is, I encourage them to say so.

In order to facilitate honest discussion, I propose that we re-state what I think the OP’s question is and use AI answers to the question as a starting point.

The question is:

“Why were the Jews kicked out of so many countries?”

AI answers:

The short answer is: there wasn’t one reason, and it wasn’t because Jews as a group were actually doing something that caused governments to expel them. The repeated expulsions were largely the result of religious prejudice, political scapegoating, economic incentives, and the vulnerability of a dispersed minority. The particular mix varied by country and period.

Jews were historically expelled from various regions because they were a distinct, stateless religious minority who served as convenient scapegoats for rulers facing economic, political, or religious crises.

Key Reasons for Historical Expulsions:

Religious Intolerance: Medieval Christian Europe and various Islamic empires viewed religious minorities with suspicion. Rulers often pressured or forced Jews to convert, viewing their continued practice of Judaism as a spiritual threat or heresy.

Economic Exploitation and Debt: Laws barred Jews from owning land or joining traditional trade guilds in many medieval societies. This forced many into specific roles like commerce, medicine, and moneylending. Because the Catholic Church banned Christians from lending money with interest,

rulers relied heavily on Jewish lenders for financing, only to cancel debts and expel communities (such as in England in 1290) when royal or national debt became too high.

Political Scapegoating: During plagues, famines, economic depressions, or military losses, rulers and local clergy directed public anger toward Jewish communities to deflect blame from their own governance.

Consolidation of Power: Monarchs seeking uniform, homogenous states—such as during the Spanish Inquisition via the Alhambra Decree in 1492—expelled religious minorities to unify their kingdoms under a single religious and political identity.

 

[Akar]

I haven't insulted anyone; on the contrary, I have taken a stand against every form of genocide. I challenge you to find a single insult directed at the Jewish community.

I certainly don't dispute the messages written in blood on the walls in Hebrew that said, "Please, make sure this never happens again."

I agree with you: every event was driven by massive economic and social factors, with the general population literally starving while a segment of society lived very well

But the moment Judaism—or anything related to it—is mentioned, it becomes impossible to have a conversation that is considered "politically correct" from the outset.

Why can't we have a historical discussion based on facts without falling into the trap of accusations of racism or antisemitism?


You know I don't vote; how could my words possibly carry any political weight?

Forgive me, but what exactly did I say that was antisemitic or anti jew ?






This is the whole point.

 

[Misty]

@Erik Alberto It isn’t really a hard to define subset. Statistics say:

Total military capacity: Broader force estimates, including active, reserve, and total command structures, can scale upwards of 600,000 depending on mobilization levels.

This merely represents capacity for boots on the ground. Now include the infrastructure of the IDF - militarily speaking you are sitting at more like one million strong.

It seems like “they” is a normal term to use when referring to a group of people - irrespective of their faith or race - who behaved as bullies in one way or another.

When you see the videos of what is occurring in Palestine it is clear that it’s not just one soldier engaging in this genocide. It is a large group, in fact, working with a particularly dark frame of mind or belief system which likely trickled down from those in charge above.

They are not being persecuted, this subset. Rather now they are in the role of persecutor over Palestine, which is particularly egregious considering their own people know first hand what such horrors feel like.

There are a great deal of good Jewish people who find the actions of the subset of bullies abhorrent.

 

[Erik Alberto]

The op is racist. The Genocide is real.

For what it’s worth, I retracted my “like”, because I decided we were actually in disagreement. I initially misunderstood what I now think you actually mean.
I was thinking OP meant “original post,” not “original poster”.
Also, I thought your reference to the Genocide being real, was you saying that the Hollocaust was real AND also that the current Gaza genocide is real.
My bad.

 

[Erik Alberto]

@Misty and @Akar—

No one is actually responding to what I keep bringing up about the nature of the original post itself in their responses to the evidence I have put forth for my assertions about it.

Please go back and read what I have put a lot of energy, thought, and care into communicating, if you want to revisit that even though I am trying to move us past it into the more productive potential here.

The original post is operating on two levels of meaning. That remains unacknowledged by you, Misty. It is also very cryptic and mysterious. I can understand why you might like to deflect attention away from this, but it really feels quite daft for you to do so.

You are not taking responsibility for the fact that @Akar’s opening post is referencing 2000 years and expulsion of the JEWISH PEOPLE, at large—not a subset—from countries that occurred centuries ago.

I mean, come on

When you see the videos of what is occurring in Palestine it is clear that it’s not just one soldier engaging in this genocide. It is a large group, in fact, working with a particularly dark frame of mind or belief system which likely trickled down from those in charge above.

They are not being persecuted, this subset. Rather now they are in the role of persecutor over Palestine, which is particularly egregious considering their own people know first hand what such horrors feel like.

Why do you keep coming back to this while ignoring the reference to “2000 years” ago? There was no Israeli-Palestine conflict 2000 years ago.

Also, I have also put considerable effort into reframing this whole discussion so that we can actually move on into talking about what the OP says he wants to actually talk about: the question of “why did the Jews get kicked out of so many countries?”

 

[Erik Alberto]

@Erik Alberto It isn’t really a hard to define subset.

No, but trying to put our fingers on exactly what subset the original post was talking about, if we’re saying it was in fact referring to a subset, is.

I have asked G to elaborate on who exactly he was talking about in the light of his framing of “the bully” who has played “this”card for 2000 years. His response was:

@Akar said: I wasn't referring to the majority, but rather to those who contributed to such a negative public image that they ended up being persecuted

If we are talking about 2000 years ago, what kind of a “sub-set” is that? It obviously not genocidal Jews in Gaza. When we finally determined that the question he wants to address is “why did the Jews get kicked out of so many countries?”, we then, finally, establish that he is NOT talking about a subset at all—he is talking about the Jewish people.

At this point, I think it is clear that talking about subsets is irrelevant moving forward if we focus on what Giammarco has intended to discuss.

For you to bring up subsets again in response to my post (below) is completely missing the point and drive of it. Why not address the primary content?

@Erik Alberto said:
I am not against asking and answering hard questions, so long as it’s clear what we are talking about. To me, saying that your OP was unclear and cryptic is, in my opinion, a gross understatement.

Why use an analogy if you can just say what you mean? The way you opened this thread was not direct. It was shrouded. It felt confusing to me. Honestly, I didn’t even know that you were talking about the Jews. It took me a while to figure it out.

As I said to you earlier:

@Erik Alberto said: It would bother me less if what I heard coming from you was “I have a problem with the Jews”, rather than something that feels untouchable.

That said…

———————————————————————

“Why have the Jews been kicked out of so many countries?” Is this the question you are asking?

Ok then. Fine.

First of all, when it’s asked plainly like this, it’s clear to me that the question you are asking is about the JEWISH PEOPLE, in general, and not some hard to define sub-set of the Jewish people.

There’s nothing wrong with asking this question, in my opinion. A topic doesn’t have to be completely politically correct for me, even if it makes me uncomfortable.

My answer: I don’t know. I don’t know enough about the topic. This isn’t my area.

Ok, moving on…

Since I am not the right person to give you a satisfying answer, and it appears you may simply want to discuss a difficult topic openly, let’s just look at AI answers to your question next, as a starting point.

Misty,

@Akar said:
Why can't I ask why they were kicked out of all these countries.

If for over 2000 years the Jews went through this scenarios, you just accept that it was never their fault, or that more realistically, that there are deeper reasons that contributed to what happened.

G is clearly talking about the Jews, here. His “they” are the Jewish people, not a subset of it.

 

[Erik Alberto]

I agree with you: every event was driven by massive economic and social factors, with the general population literally starving while a segment of society lived very well

Additionally, to be clear, that is not an opinion that I shared as mine—you are not agreeing with me. That content came from the AI quote I shared in answer to The Question. I have been very overt about my stance on the question, more than once: I don’t have an answer; I don’t know.

@Akar said:
Why can't I ask why they were kicked out of all these countries.

If for over 2000 years the Jews went through this scenarios, you just accept that it was never their fault, or that more realistically, that there are deeper reasons that contributed to what happened.

Sure you can. You have. And so have I. The stage is set. No one has rejected the question of “why have the Jews been kicked out of so many countries?” and you have agreed with one of its points so far. You have disagreed with none. Keep going if you wish.