Psychological Heterogeneity of Autism?

[Fruiteloop]

I have heard several descriptions of what it is like to be autistic for years now. I get this sense of what the condition is like but if you feel different from how I present my understandings please share what you think. I want to be considerate.

I will talk about the level of autism that needs the least amount of care or help to function in society. Not people who cannot present their personal experiences and understandings in words as they appear not to be able to and need the most help. Autistic people that want to be understood I generally hear the phrase "if you've met a person with autism you met one person with autism."

To Begin

In the false belief task at age 4-6 A puppet with a ball puts the ball in a box and leaves. A second puppet comes and takes the ball out of the 1st box and puts it in the second box and leaves. When the first puppet comes back the child is asked where they will look for the ball the first box or second box. Usually non autistic children say the first box is where the puppet with look because that is where the first puppet hid the ball and does not know it was moved. From what I gather the question to the autistic child seems strange because it is only hypothetical because both the adult doing the experiment and the child knows where the actual ball is. The autistic child may not understand that the puppet is supposed to be real.

This shows that autistic people and non autistic people see things very differently. They do not have the same frame of reference for making social decisions.

What I hear often is that autistic people "mask" in social situations where girls do so more successfully. They do not understand what nonverbal gestures mean because it is not obvious what they refer to. I was told that or rather I inferred that in order to understand what people are talking about you need to understand the inside of the other person and so you need to have a tandem of what is happening inside yourself where you both share an inside and outside together. The autistic person cannot understanding social situations because they do not feel what is happening inside the other person by observing them and need to be told directly how the other person is experiencing themselves. That is why the autistic person even if they practice cannot do social things well.

The term double empathy is what some autistic people use to describe how they feel when they know something is wrong and was to help others. But if they need to be told explicitly what is happening then this would not allow them to know what actually happens inside another person and must find those explicit signals without being told what they are. The signals are actually implicit but this is the blind spot for the autistic person. This would imply that the autistic person is not able to pay attention to the inside of other people and only the outside so cannot understand social cues.

If this is accurate then most people do not understand the difference between autistic and non autistic people and why so much misunderstanding exist.

If this is inaccurate then I have not really understood the situation but I have tried to see what the perspectives are and some may disagree so I am leaving the subject open if anyone can better explain it to me how it really is?

 

[Kessler]

Autism is very much a non linear spectrum. What one autistic person relates to may not relate to another.

In the false belief task at age 4-6 A puppet with a ball puts the ball in a box and leaves. A second puppet comes and takes the ball out of the 1st box and puts it in the second box and leaves. When the first puppet comes back the child is asked where they will look for the ball the first box or second box. Usually non autistic children say the first box is where the puppet with look because that is where the first puppet hid the ball and does not know it was moved. From what I gather the question to the autistic child seems strange because it is only hypothetical because both the adult doing the experiment and the child knows where the actual ball is. The autistic child may not understand that the puppet is supposed to be real.

This shows that autistic people and non autistic people see things very differently. They do not have the same frame of reference for making social decisions.

This is a very dated study. Modern ASD covers more than the autism cohort in that study. I would guess that the those in the study who are autistic have/had Autism with intellectual disability (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12638323/ Table 2). If you take out intellectual disability you would probably have the exact outcome per population overall.

What I hear often is that autistic people "mask" in social situations where girls do so more successfully. They do not understand what nonverbal gestures mean because it is not obvious what they refer to. I was told that or rather I inferred that in order to understand what people are talking about you need to understand the inside of the other person and so you need to have a tandem of what is happening inside yourself where you both share an inside and outside together. The autistic person cannot understanding social situations because they do not feel what is happening inside the other person by observing them and need to be told directly how the other person is experiencing themselves. That is why the autistic person even if they practice cannot do social things well.

Autistic people who mask do so to fit in with socially acceptable norms. This masking is generally very intensive with mental processing and very draining mentally. all of this very much depends on the Autistic person and their sensory sensitivities. Autistic people often understand social situations but don't pickup on social signals because of increased sensory experiences.

The term double empathy is what some autistic people use to describe how they feel when they know something is wrong and was to help others. But if they need to be told explicitly what is happening then this would not allow them to know what actually happens inside another person and must find those explicit signals without being told what they are. The signals are actually implicit but this is the blind spot for the autistic person. This would imply that the autistic person is not able to pay attention to the inside of other people and only the outside so cannot understand social cues.

Cognitive Empathy in Autism

• • Definition: Knowing what someone thinks or feels by analyzing logic, context, and body language.
  • Autistic Experience: Often more challenging. Autistic individuals may struggle to intuitively "read" facial expressions, nonverbal cues, or shifting social tones, requiring conscious intellectual effort to process. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Emotional Empathy in Autism

• • Definition: Feeling what someone else feels in your own body and emotions.
  • Autistic Experience: Frequently intact, normal, or even heightened. Many autistic people experience hyper-empathy, feeling others' pain or distress so intensely that it causes sensory or emotional overload, sometimes leading to withdrawal. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Empathic Disequilibrium

• • Research highlights empathic disequilibrium, an imbalance where an autistic individual may have high emotional empathy paired with lower cognitive empathy. [1]
  • This dynamic disproves the outdated myth that autistic people lack empathy; rather, they deeply feel what others experience, even if they misinterpret or struggle to decode the external social cues. [1, 2]

I'm Autistic (would have been Asperger's back in the day). Feel free to ask me what ever you want.

 

[Fruiteloop]

I'm Autistic (would have been Asperger's back in the day). Feel free to ask me what ever you want.

I have aphantasia.

I do not have a working default network (what happens when you close your eyes and mind wonder)

It is not that I do not recognize faces, I can know what subtle emotions people have on the face, I just don't name them.

When I look at a face or listen to the voice I know what is happening, I tend not to feel what happens inside the other person.

I think it depends on where it happens, the map does not go one to one of their body and mine.

If someone is hurt I kind of feel it in the gut, I get nauseated but it is not a one to one map.

For me its most like a feeling of anxiety. I do not really know what to do.

If I look people in the eyes I sometimes feel not so good, something feels violating. Being watched on the inside.

I am not normally prone to sensory stimuli being abrasive.
Its not so intense that I worry to much about it. But I cannot take hot or cold showers.

I have not been diagnosed with ADHD (I am on a med for it) but I tend to do poorly on some tests.

The Iowa gambling task I got negative $2000
The Wisconsin Card Sorting task I had a failure to maintain set of Z -3.18

ADHD might not be it because in that condition Time is a factor and I am highly organized.
For some reason I make poor choices that would not be associated with ADHD but something else?
My ability to make choices limits me to doing only a few things in real life because the money I have I cannot go places.
I happen to be very isolated and stay at home most of the time. I do not engage with people outside a limited number of people I know.

The complication is that I never really know what I have since doctors do not explain anything.

I am under stress alot because I am bored all the time and have no money.
I guess that the doctor do give me meds but they don't know why?
If there is no reason for meds or if the meds don't do anything how would they know?
There should be a blood test for most anything now these days but where I am at the doctors don't know anything.
So even if I had Autism or something else they would not be able to treat it because there is no mechanism for what is happening they would know about. Tests are just on paper?

Mostly this is just rambling. You do not have to respond just whatever you feel you want to respond to. I kind am off topic in some way?

It is hard to discriminate between conditions when no mechanisms have been found the public are aware of. People tell me I am autistic sometimes but I do not know if that is true or just them misunderstanding the condition and using autism as a slur. I would assume my empathy is fine. But it be harder to characterize how it happens personally for me.

 

[Kessler]

I have aphantasia.

Common among autistics. I too have aphantasia, although my brain auto visualizes memories (very faint). I have no control of any internal visualization.

I can know what subtle emotions people have on the face, I just don't name them.

This sounds like a form of alexithymia to me (only because you say "I just don't name them"). It is also common among Autistics and I have this. Alexithymia takes different forms and doesn't mean a person can't describe emotions at all.

If I look people in the eyes I sometimes feel not so good, something feels violating. Being watched on the inside.

Gaze Aversion is a hallmark of Autism. It also doesn't mean you can't look people in the eye. Depending on what I am talking about with someone and how well I know them I struggle with thinking and talking while looking people in the eyes. Too much information and my brain only wants to focus on the emotional responses the person is producing.

But I cannot take hot or cold showers.

This is also a common (probably not a high percentage?) sensory issue among autistics.

ADHD might not be it because in that condition Time is a factor and I am highly organized.
For some reason I make poor choices that would not be associated with ADHD but something else?
My ability to make choices limits me to doing only a few things in real life because the money I have I cannot go places.
I happen to be very isolated and stay at home most of the time. I do not engage with people outside a limited number of people I know.

AuDHD is a thing and can cause both conditions to hide each other. Just a note, allistic neurotypical people do not question if they are autistic.

If you live in the US (and depending on healthcare coverage/state for you) https://www.prosperhealth.io/ specializes in diagnosing and therapy for autistic people. If you are autistic, having help and resources to understand your differences can really be beneficial and make life much more enjoyable.

I really recommend this youtube channel to learn about Autism https://www.youtube.com/@Auticate/videos
For those that prefer to read https://www.autismchrysalis.com/book-recommendations/